Wideband en Bora 1.8T

[Se-R]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

JAjaJaJaJaJaj me saltaste de un uno a un Evo.. que si yo leo de una forma sonas pedante (sere el unico)
te haces el humilde diciendo que vas sonado..
me decis aspero... vos me decis Aspero a mi? ajajajajajjaJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJ

Me decis Limitado por?
Todo bien maestro.. seguro que te encanta sentirte en un pedestal y tendras tus discipulos, pero a mi no me dislumbras para nada.. por como hablas deberias tener el record de todo..
y no creo que sea asi..
Abrazo Doctor.

hable antes de un evo, Lo de las 14 Lucas, lee antes se salir mal.
Jamás me hice el humilde, y "sonando"(acá no entendí lo de sonando)

Te digo limitado porque hablas de 1,8T y sólo saben decir bora, antes que eso todos los gol se hacían 1,8 y se enturbaban entre otros.

NO TE DESLUMBRO? Bloqueame!! Aunque por ahí decís que te interesa aprender... Irónico no?

Ponele que sea pedante, y? De nuevo no te gusta block y listo la tecnología te permite eso.
y no

No tengo récord de nada , jamás toque una llave de diez,cuando quieras debatir algo con fundamentos hablamos , para salir como resentida y con ironías baratas, AVÍSAME QUE DE ESO TENGO MÁS TODAVÍA, y créeme MUCHO MÁS!!


pd Ahh ll
de sonado = cagado y si no me hago el humilde si yo no se nada todo lo saco de Wikipedia pregúntale a cualquiera , jama toque ni una de diez, y como vos decís no tengo récord de nada!!!

[meteorointerceptor]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

te resumo.. yo hable solo del 1.8T ? en que momento?
Ironico? y si.. gracias por captarlo sino me frustro..
Yo tengo record de fondo Blanco con 1 litro de birra.. algo es algo..
Vos decis que no "SONAS" yo te digo que no "HABLAMOS" a lo sumo "ESCRIBIMOS" No?
Tampoco dije que no tenes record de nada eeeee.. hay que saber interpretar
PD: el 1.8T vino en el passat, el Bora A3, el Golf... No seas limitado queres?

PD2: Estoy segurisimo que si vos y yo nos sentamos a comer un asado nos cagariamos de risa.. bah vos seguro al menos al ver mi cara.
Abrazo Zonzon!
Que siga el post.

[Se-R]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

te resumo.. yo hable solo del 1.8T ? en que momento?
Ironico? y si.. gracias por captarlo sino me frustro..
Yo tengo record de fondo Blanco con 1 litro de birra.. algo es algo..
Vos decis que no "SONAS" yo te digo que no "HABLAMOS" a lo sumo "ESCRIBIMOS" No?


PD: el 1.8T vino en el passat, el Bora A3, el Golf... No seas limitado queres?




PD2: Estoy segurisimo que si vos y yo nos sentamos a comer un asado nos cagariamos de risa.. bah vos seguro al menos al ver mi cara.
Abrazo Zonzon!
Que siga el post.

Asado puede ser, birra o fernet me parecen de marica.

[EduGol]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

Asado? Si después te invitan y no vas pedazo de maraca!

[El Negro 2007]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

EGTs 101/501

EGT stands for Exhaust Gas Temperature. It is important to measure your EGTs when tuning and to keep them from being too high both while cruising and at heavy load.

Why measure EGTs?
Exhaust gas temperature is a measure of heat in the cylinder during combustion, and is most commonly measured close to the head. Since all metals melt, deform, or undergo transformation under excessive temperatures for that particular metal, it is easy to have too high of EGT and cause damage to engine/turbo components. Thus a tuner must measure the EGTs and keep them in check or suffer the consequences.High EGTs also contribute to knock. You cannot tune your car by EGTs alone, and you should not tune your car without measuring the EGTs.
For example, you may have tuned your car and have perfect AFRs, but you still run into detonation or have suffered engine failure. You can’t figure out why, but it is likely that your timing is too low, thus causing high EGTs, which in turn cause knock. When tuning, you must monitor EGTs and tune your fueling/timing to prevent EGTs from getting too hot.

What causes high EGTs?

Lean burning of fuel (too much air to a unit of fuel) causes high EGTs. Also low ignition timing will cause high EGTs.

When do EGTs become “too high”?

This is a highly debated topic and much was written on it by various sources. EGTs are too high when they begin to pose danger to engine and turbo components. Generally, 1600 degrees Fahrenheit (871 degrees Celsius) is considered to be a good number, borderline high EGTs. It is probably safe to briefly run up to 1650F (899C) degrees. Of course you find people running and various tuners recommending to run 1700F (926C), 1800F (982C) and up to 1900F (1037C) degrees. These temperatures ARE causing damage to turbos and
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engine components. Here is an excellent article on EGTs by Banks Power, and it pertains to both gasoline and diesel engines.
So, why 1600F (871C) degrees is a good number? Lets look at the melting point of aluminum first – it is only 1220.666F (660.37C) degrees. Your engine has cast iron cylinder liners to help prevent the heat of combustion from melting the engine and the pistons are made out of aluminum alloy, which can withstand temperatures higher than 1220F (660C). But what about your turbo turbine wheel? Turbo exhaust housing is normally cast iron, so it can take a lot of heat, but the turbine wheel is aluminum. Regular turbos can sustain brief inlet temperature spikes of up to about 1600F (871C) degrees. Optimal exhaust gas inlet temperature, however, is about 1200F (660C) for turbos and their components.
On Subaru WRX and STI the length of the equal-length header runners allows for only about 300F (149C) degrees drop in EGT before exhaust gas reaches the turbo. The EGT drop is less in unequal length header runners.
So if you are running 1600F (871C) EGT, then the temperature of exhaust gas entering your turbo is about 1300F (704C) degrees – as you can see this temperature is at the limit of what your turbo can safely take. That’s one good reason to keep your EGTs to 1600F (871C). Keeping in mind that key internal engine components on a road engine are not designed to operate at excessive temperatures (above 1600F (871C)), the failure becomes certain if excessive heat conditions continue for any significant period of time.
Mods can be done that will help safely sustain EGTs above 1600F (871C). Such mods may include superalloy exhaust valves, oil squirters for pistons and ceramic coatings on all engine components subject to high heat, including pistons, and ceramic turbo wheels.
Why are high EGTs bad again?
High EGTs indicate excessive temperatures in the combustion chamber and have the potential to introduce detonation, thus destroying your engine, melt your exhaust valves, pistons and damage the turbo itself. Simply put, engine components and turbos on road engines are not able to withstand excessive temperatures.
Some may say that Formula 1 and other race cars run EGTs in excess of 2000F (1093C) degrees. What they fail to say is that F1 and other race engines are built with unlimited budgets, built from different materials than road engines, with special coatings to increase thermal efficiency – those engines are built to withstand high temperatures. They are not reliable for daily driving and are usually built for one race only, then scrapped or completely rebuilt. Same goes for turbos used in racecars – race teams can afford to regularly replace their high end, ceramic-coated turbos with ceramic wheels that can withstand high temperatures, albeit for one race only.
Here is a NASIOC thread about the danger of high EGTs
Here is an interesting article about F1 engines
Where should I put the EGT sensor?

EGT sensor probe should be installed into a header runner, as close to the head as possible. Generally, EGT probes are installed within the first 3 inches from the head. Read below about equal vs. unequal length headers to see where you should place the EGT sensor probe on your car.

Equal length vs. Unequal length headers

While this information is not specific to Subarus, we will explain the difference using the Subaru example.
When modifying WRX/STIs, it is important to plan for the type of the aftermarket exhaust manifold (header) your will be getting. Unequal length header will allow you to keep the Subaru Boxer rumble sound, yet unequal length header is a poor choice if you want to maintain equal EGTs among all cylinders and safe turbo inlet temperatures. Since header runner for cylinder 4 is the longest on unequal length headers (on WRX/STI), you have the highest EGT in that runner and on cylinder 4. This is because hot exhaust gases travel longer in the longer runner. Cylinder 2 runner is the second longest. Since you are continuously subjecting cylinders 2 and 4 to higher heat than other cylinders it is very common to see cylinder 4 and cylinder 2 failures in Subarus.
Shorter runners of cylinders 1 and 3 provide for lower EGT on those cylinders. However, since the temperature drop is less than in cylinder 2 and 4 runners, higher-temperature exhaust gases get transferred to the turbo, subjecting the turbo to additional heat stress.
Equal length manifold (header) smoothes exhaust pulses of the Boxer engine, thus changing the exhaust note to smooth vs. burpy. Equal-length header is optimal for maintaining equal EGT between all cylinders and delivering a constant, lower-temperature exhaust gas to the turbo.
TIP: on unequal-length manifold, install the EGT sensor probe within 3 inches from


How can I lower the EGTs?

EGTscan be lowered by adding more fuel for richer mixture, by adding alcohol/water injection and by increasing timing. A combination of these measures will provide best results in keeping your EGTs at or below 1600 F at load.

[El Negro 2007]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

There seems to be a lot of mystery and misinformation about using exhaust gas temperatures to tune engines.

Claims by many EGT gauge manufacturers about it being the best way to tune an engine must be qualified. The BEST way to tune an engine is on an engine dyno- PERIOD.

What EGT is good for is a reference for where the engine made maximum torque at wide open throttle. Once removed from the dyno, a similarair/fuel ratio can be established at a later date by dialing in the mixture to achieve the target EGT. It is really the AFR that is important, not the EGT. Most engines will make maximum power at an AFR of between 12.0 and 13.5 to 1 however, the EGT may vary from 1250F to 1800F and is dependent on many factors.

It should be mentioned that the target EGT is valid only on the same engine configuration as was used on the dyno. If you change the ignition timing, cams, pistons, headers etc., the optimum EGT may also change. Raising the compression ratio with no other changes will drop the EGT at the same AFR. Retarding the ignition timing will generally raise the EGT at the same AFR. One engine might make best power at 1350 degrees while a very similar engine might be happier at 1500. You can't guess at this or you are simply wasting your money on the instrumentation.

Wankel engines have higher EGTs than comparable piston engines due to their lower thermal efficiencies. 1800F is not uncommon here. Some gauge manufacturers say you should tune to achieve maximum or peak EGT for maximum performance. This is incorrect. Peak EGT generally occurs at an AFR of around 14.7- 15.0 to 1 on gasoline. This is far too lean for maximum power and is dangerous under continuous WOT conditions.

Many people think that the leaner you go, the higher the EGT gets. This is also incorrect. Peak EGT occurs at stoichiometry- about 15 to 1 for our purposes. If you go richer than 15 to 1, EGT will drop and if you go leaner than 15 to 1 EGT will ALSO drop. It is VERY important to know which side of peak EGT you are on before making adjustments. It is safe to say that peak power will occur at an EGT somewhat colder than peak EGT. You can sometimes feel a lean of peak condition as the mixture is hard to ignite and power will be down a bit as well. Once the AFR gets close to 17 to 1 at WOT, generally the engine will start to lean misfire.

Most tuners always recommend to begin jetting or programming from a known very rich initial setting and carefully leaning until torque falls off slightly, then going back richer to the point of max torque. Note the EGT at this setting. Be aware that altitude, barometric pressure and ambient air temperature may affect this optimal temperature to some degree.

Are EGT gauges better than AFR meters?

Conventional narrow band oxygen sensors and digital LED meters are not the best devices to measure AFR in the richer ranges but they certainly warn of a too lean condition immediately and obviously, without translation by the driver and they are affordable. Meters combined with wide band sensors are supposed to be highly accurate and everyone has jumped on the bandwagon with these lately. Unfortunately the naive and impressionable often don't question the accuracy of these devices. We have seen some dyno plots indicating best power was achieved at AFRs of 9.7 to 1 on gasoline. This is PHYSICALLY AND CHEMICALLY IMPOSSIBLE and shows that either the sensor was bad (leaded fuel used possibly) or the meter was not calibrated properly.

Again, the wide band sensors have the same limitations as the narrow band- leaded race gas quickly fouls them. We have heard and read many stories now indicating that certain brands of wideband meters differ as much as 2 points AFR in readings between each other. In other words, the accuracy of some of these devices is highly questionable.

Extensive testing with laboratory quality instrumentation on aircraft engines universally indicates that best power is NEVER made at AFRs richer than 12 to 1. Airflow and fuel flow rates are independently measured and each cylinder is instrumented with EGT probes.

We recently dynoed a shop road racing Celica on a DynoJet equipped with a wide band meter. The meter was saying that the engine was going super lean (17 to 1) at high rpm so we kept upping the fuel there. The engine lost more and more power as we added fuel. The dyno operator was convinced that the meter was right but logic told us with no serious dip in power on the curve and the fact that the engine was still alive that the meter was not correct. We started leaning the engine down more and the engine started gaining power. Finally, when confronted with this information, the operator checked the water trap for the wide band sensor. Once this was emptied, the AFRs looked reasonable again. We didn't need the wide band to tell us this, only the torque curve from the dyno.

We have heard of several other instances with people using wide bands getting erroneous readings and tuning their SDS based on these readings. Then they phone us saying that the system is crap. Look at the dyno curve, when the engine makes its best power at a given rpm, that's where it likes the AFR irregardless of what other instrumentation is telling you. Remember, a bad sensor whether O2 or EGT equals bad information. When the engine sounds crisp and makes great power, you're there. I would suggest that mixture meters and EGT gauges are complimentary. EGT gauges have the advantage of working long term with leaded fuel which will clog oxygen sensors. EGT gauges are widely used to set mixture on engines used for steady state high power applications where operation has been carefully documented such as in aircraft. The choice would depend on the application. Both are better if you can afford them.

[nicoscr]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

Aguante el Branca

[Tornado]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

Che si el auto ya tiene wideband no conviene conectarse por el OBDII y mirar los valores por la Notebook o el celular?
Yo tengo el ELM Bluethoot y miro las sondas, avance y temp por el celu con el torque. (es medio lenteja el refresh pero anda.)

[galle]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

JAjaJaJaJaJaj me saltaste de un uno a un Evo.. que si yo leo de una forma sonas pedante (sere el unico)
te haces el humilde diciendo que vas sonado..
me decis aspero... vos me decis Aspero a mi? ajajajajajjaJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJ

Me decis Limitado por?
Todo bien maestro.. seguro que te encanta sentirte en un pedestal y tendras tus discipulos, pero a mi no me dislumbras para nada.. por como hablas deberias tener el record de todo..
y no creo que sea asi..
Abrazo Doctor.

+++++ 1111

[El Negro 2007]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

si no entienden el por que y el uso entre medicion de EGT a mismos valores de AFR, usen el google trasnlator al menos, tienen menos valor que 10 cm de alambre negro usados como " aporte " soldando con la autogena

[shadowpucci]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

3ra a fondo y cortas , punto muerto, apagas el motor, frenas en vacio, ojo ya no queda deopresion en el multiple, solo para una frenada

sacas el cobertor plastico, si lo tiene puesto y sano, sacas la ficha de la bobina, es mas practico en la 1 y la 2, la 3 tiene la manguera arriba de la bobina, sacas el tubo y la palanca de la caja de herramientas, desenroscas la bujia y miras
te con leche es estequiometrica

Me estan saliendo siempre todas blancas en el mio. Estoy haciendo algo mal?

[pelucaa]

Re: Wideband en Bora 1.8T

Me estan saliendo siempre todas blancas en el mio. Estoy haciendo algo mal?