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  • piston forjado o fundido?

    hola gente,a ver si soy yo el que piensa mal o es realmente asi... que es el forjado de un material? para mi es (en criollo y muuuy por arriba)calentar una pieza y a travez de golpes llegar a la forma deseada...
    a que viene esta pregunta, los pistones que usamos la gran mayoria de este foro supuestamente son forjados??? en la caja lo dice o cuando lo pedimos lo pedimos asi o sea que hacen agarran un pedazo de aluminio la calientan lo golpean y guala! sale el piston forjado? mmm me parece que no es asi una vez fui a comprar un jueguito de pistones a ciudadela y le pregunte esto mismo al "ingeniero" y no supo que responderme....
    debatan muchachos no quiero ser mal pensado que nos estan engañando y encima rompiendo el c...

  • #2
    Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

    son inyectados a alta presion.

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    • #3
      Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

      graaan pregunta...

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      • #4
        Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

        Originally posted by 2.3aspirado View Post
        hola gente,a ver si soy yo el que piensa mal o es realmente asi... que es el forjado de un material? para mi es (en criollo y muuuy por arriba)calentar una pieza y a travez de golpes llegar a la forma deseada...
        a que viene esta pregunta, los pistones que usamos la gran mayoria de este foro supuestamente son forjados??? en la caja lo dice o cuando lo pedimos lo pedimos asi o sea que hacen agarran un pedazo de aluminio la calientan lo golpean y guala! sale el piston forjado? mmm me parece que no es asi una vez fui a comprar un jueguito de pistones a ciudadela y le pregunte esto mismo al "ingeniero" y no supo que responderme....
        debatan muchachos no quiero ser mal pensado que nos estan engañando y encima rompiendo el c...
        seguro q no supo q decirte porq se quedo pensando como dar las forma a un piston a los golpes.
        como dijo barespla son inyectados a alta presion. igual segun la marca tiene aleacion en porcentajes diferentes.

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        • #5
          Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

          El piston forjado se le llama forjado por que se vierte el metal derretido en un molde con una atmosfera distinta en cuanto a presion y temperatura que a lo que seria un piston comun
          Esto permite un ordenamiento mas compacto de las moleculas y por lo tanto otorga mayor resistencia

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          • #6
            Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

            Por lo que vi en algunos videos, como te dicen son inyectados a alta presion pero tambien los "golpea" una maquina para eliminar pequeños poros en el material y puntos débiles, ademas de "comprimir" mas el material. Habian posteado en el foro un video copado alguna vez..

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            • #7
              Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

              tenes varios modelos el mas comun es el de colada se usa un molde del piston,a lo criollo como los moldes para fabricar una plomada de pesca,por ej fiat tipo 1.6 arranca en 88.5 y de ahi se parte hacia atras rectificando y llevandolo a su medida de necesidad y haci con todos los modelos de todos los motores

              inyectados son con un molde pero en vez de colada es bajo presion a muy alta temp

              y el de forja se usan unos machos el cual podes variar forma modelo y lo que se te antoje introduciendo el tocho a temp y un balancin los golpea hasta obtener su forma,si encuentro las fotos que tenia subo para ser mas claro

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              • #8
                Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

                [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPF7jdPyQaU[/YT]

                Ahi explica bastante bien...

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                • #9
                  Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

                  los pistones q consumimos nosotros son con material inyectado obviamente a presion. con esto se logra reducir las moleculas de aire que queda en el material. haciendolo mas resistente. igual es masomenos lo q te dijeron todos pero cada uno con sus palabras. suerte y q ahora te kede claro .

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                  • #10
                    Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

                    por lo que vi el forjado es el que sale de una sola pieza de aluminio y el otro es derretido e injectado en moldes puede ser??

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                    • #11
                      Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

                      la palabra te lo dice forjar!... forjar una espada, forjar un piston...

                      fundición: fundir o derretir

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                      • #12
                        Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

                        como dice maxi.....forjados(a golpes o presion excesiva) y los otros son por colacion de un material derretido en un molde !!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

                          te sirve ??????


                          BME Forged Aluminum Racing Pistons: Parts that Win Races
                          Jamie McMurray in Victory Lane right after the end of the 2010 Daytona 500. A part of why Jamie is jubilant were the eight BME Pistons which were in the engine of his #1 Bass Pro Shops/Tracker Boats Chevrolet. Image: Copyright, 2010 Action Sports Photography, Inc.

                          NASCAR's crown jewel is the Daytona 500. In 2010, Jamie McMurray, driving the #1 Bass Pro Shops/Tracker Boats Chevrolet, won it. Bill Miller Engineering Forged Aluminum Racing Pistons gave the engine in Jamie Mac's Chevy the edge in performance and reliability it needed to win the Great American Race.
                          Another big story in NASCAR for 2010 was the points battle–the closest in years–between Kevin Harvick, in the #29, Penzoil Chevrolet, Denny Hamlin, in the BME-equipped, #11, FedEx Toyota and Jimmie Johnson in the #48 Lowes Chevrolet.
                          Harvick, driving for Richard Childress, held the points lead for two-thirds of the season. He had the best average finish (8.8) in Sprint Cup, won three races and had 16 top fives. Reliable restrictor plate engines with Bill Miller Engineering Racing Pistons helped him do that.

                          Kevin Harvick, in the BME-equippped #29 Richard Childress Racing/Pennzoil Chevy finished a mere 15 points short of the 2010 Sprint Cup Championship. Harvick uses engines from Earnhardt/Childress Racing and Bill Miller Engineering is proud to be one of its piston suppliers.
                          Another BME Pistons user, Denny Hamlin, driving for Joe Gibbs, won eight races, the most of any driver in 2010. He came on strong during the season-ending, 10-race "Chase for the Sprint Cup", NASCAR's version of the "playoffs". Hamlin held the points lead early in the Chase, lost it to Johnson after the third race, retook the lead after winning the seventh race and was 15 points ahead going into the final race at Homestead, Florida.
                          On lap 25 at Homestead, Hamlin tangled with Greg Biffle's Ford which hurt his car's handling. Hamlin could not overcome the loss in track position and finished the race in 14th. Kevin Harvick qualified fifth and dueled with the Lowes team until NASCAR assessed him a pit road speeding penalty on lap 188. Harvick battled back, finishing third in the race. Jimmie Johnson won an unprecedented fifth consecutive Sprint Cup. Hamlin was runner-up, 39 points behind. Kevin Harvick, was third, a scant 2 points behind Hamlin.
                          BME's had a strong showing at Daytona in 2007. The #38 M&Ms Ford is chased by a pack of six Chevys, four of which (#20 Home Depot, #8 Budweiser, #11 FedEx and #1 Bass Pro Shops) were running BME Forged Aluminum Racing Pistons in their engines during the Great American Race that year. Image: Goodyear/Aaron Vandersommers.

                          Joe Gibbs Racing uses BME Pistons in its Toyota NASCAR engines. JGR's Denny Hamlin, in the #11 FedEx Toyota, won the most races in 2010 and narrowly missed winning the Sprint Cup Championship. Image: Autoimagery.


                          NASCAR Consistency and Reliability

                          Cars using Bill Miller Engineering Forged Aluminum Racing Pistons took five of top 12 spots in 2010 Sprint Cup Points: Harvick, 2nd, Hamlin 3rd, Kyle Busch 8th (#18 M&Ms Toyota), Clint Boyer 10th (#33 Cheerios Chevrolet) and Jeff Burton 12th (#31 Caterpillar Chevrolet). BME Pistons also won all five restrictor plate races in 2010.
                          Earnhardt-Childress Racing Engines provides engines for three NASCAR teams, Earnhardt Ganassi Racing, Richard Childress Racing and Kevin Harvick, Inc. ECR's choice of BME Pistons helped those three teams win three of five NASCAR events at Daytona Speedweeks 2010. In addition, ECR used Bill Miller Engineering Forged Aluminum Racing Pistons in every restrictor plate engine it built during the '10 season for the NASCAR Sprint Cup and Nationwide Series. "Plate races" are a very abusive test of pistons and ECR's choice of BME paid off handsomely. Its engines won every Sprint Cup restrictor plate race in 2010.
                          Joe Gibbs Racing has depended on the reliability and durability of Bill Miller Engineering Pistons for over a decade. Between 1999 and 2010, Joe Gibbs Racing's three Sprint Cups (Stewart in '05 and '02 and Bobby Labonte in '00), 91 race wins and 361 top five finishes came, in part, from the BME Pistons the team puts in its engines. In 2010, Gibbs didn't win the Sprint Cup, but the Coach's BME-equipped Toyota Camrys, in the hands of Denny Hamlin, Kyle Busch and Joey Lagano, won 11 races, the most of any team in Sprint Cup Racing that year.

                          In 1998, the late Dale Earnhardt won at Daytona using BME Pistons.
                          Since 1996, six NASCAR Sprint Cup Champions, Jeff Gordon (1997, 1998, 2001) Bobby Labonte (2000) and Tony Stewart (2002, 2005), along with five Daytona 500 Winners used BME Pistons.
                          Two years running, in '09, with Kyle Busch, and '08, with Clint Bowyer, BME Pistons won the NASCAR Nationwide Series Championship. In '09 and '07, Ron Hornaday won the Camping World Truck Series using Bill Miller Engineering Forged Aluminum Pistons.
                          The greatest driver of NASCAR’s modern era, seven-time Champion Dale Earnhardt, used BME performance and reliability to put the famed #3 Goodwrench Chevrolet in the victory circle at Daytona in 1998 and at other races in the final years of his career.
                          Why have Bill Miller Engineering Pistons had such success in NASCAR?
                          Simple...BME makes a better product.


                          The BME Advantage
                          In the mid-’90s, the first Sprint Cup team to switch to BME Pistons gained 8-10 horsepower. In NASCAR five horsepower is substantial and 8-10 is huge. Soon, other teams switched. By the end of 1999, all the top GM teams in Sprint Cup were buying BME Pistons.
                          Fifteen years ago, most Cup teams used another piston brand. The engine shops of the top Chevrolet teams, Richard Childress Racing and Hendrick Motorsports, were having trouble with “microwelding.

                          In a 1990s NASCAR engine, the heat transfer path was: from the piston top, to the top ring, to the cylinder wall and, finally, to the block's cooling jacket. To keep the piston from overheating, this path had to adequately transfer heat. The other brand of pistons had ring land surface finishes so rough that heat transfer from the piston to the top compression ring was inhibited. That allowed the ring to get so hot that microscopic, heat-softened pieces of piston material would weld to the ring. Once that happened, ring rotation stopped, ring seal degraded and power dropped. The solution to microwelding is the higher-quality finish on the ring lands of of a Bill Miller Engineering Forged Aluminum Piston. Superior manufacturing processes, using Okuma Simulturn CNC machining centers, and rigid quality controls hold tolerance for ring groove run-out to less than two ten-thousandths (.0002) of an inch, 360° around the piston. A BME Piston's nearly mirror-smooth ring groove surfaces improve heat transfer. That reduces peak temperature of the top ring, eliminating microwelding. Ring seal during the intake stroke is enhanced. That increases the pressure differential caused by the piston moving down on the intake stroke so the engine pulls in more air. More air means the engine can burn more fuel. The final result is more power.
                          Since BME Pistons are custom-made, we offer a variety of optional services and one some NASCAR teams choose is a unique piston design. This allows the team to have pistons of its own, special configuration. The specifics of these designs are known only to the teams’ engine shops and the engineers at BME. Teams using specific piston designs may be getting even more of a performance edge than the 8-10 horsepower discussed earlier.


                          BME's special machining procedures result in a very smooth finish on ring lands. That near-mirror finish greatly increases resistance to microwelding. Image: BME Ltd.BME makes 400-gram, NASCAR racing pistons for the Chevrolet, Ford and Toyota NASCAR engines. They give guys like Jamie McMurray, Denny Hamlin and Kevin Harvick a winning edge.
                          BME Pistons are manufactured in Carson City, Nevada. BME's factory is clean, modern and filled with the latest in manufacturing technology, such as Okuma Simulturn five-axis CNC machining centers.

                          Six views of a BME Forged Aluminum Sprint Cup Piston.
                          BME Pistons: The Drag Racer's Choice
                          Six-time IHRA Top Fuel champion and current NHRA T/F racer, Clay Milican has used BME Pistons in his Werner Enterprises/Knoll Gas Dragster for 17 years straight. Image: Goodyear/Aaron Vandersommers.
                          Bill Miller Engineering's cutting-edge technology and premium quality wins races in another motorsport which is a grueling test of pistons: blown-fuel drag racing. Ever since legendary, dragster and funny car crew chief, Dale Armstrong, switched to BME in the 1980s, blown-fuel racers have used BME Pistons in their engines. Since then, in the Top Fuel and Funny Car classes of National Hot Rod Association and International Hot Rod Association competition, where engines making 1000-horsepower per cylinder are the norm; BME products are a benchmark by which racing pistons are judged.
                          In four of the last five years, racers using BME Forged Aluminum Racing Pistons won the IHRA Top Fuel championship, In 2010, it was Bobby Lagana Jr.; in '09, Del Cox; in '08, Spencer Massey and in '06 Clay Millican. In fact, Millican is a six-time IHRA Top Fuel Champion and has used BME Pistons in his Nitro Fish/Weld Racing Dragster for 18 straight seasons. Millican began an NHRA T/F schedule in '07, finished 10th in 2009 and continues to rely on the performance and reliability of BME parts in 2011.


                          Joe Hartley drives the Hartley Racing Top Fuel Dragster owned by his Dad, Allen. The Hartley's, a drag racing family for 40 years, are some of the few independents who run the majority of NHRA National Events. As "privateers" they well-know importance of value in the parts they use in their engines and that's why they choose Bill Miller Forged Aluminum Racing Pistons...as well as BME Rods and the Gibson-Miller Mark II Supercharger. Image: BME Ltd
                          Racing programs run by the few independents in drag racing's nitro classes are more focused on cost issues. For that reason, many independents use BME Forged Aluminum Racing Pistons for the durability advantage they offer over other piston brands. In 2009, Allen Hartley was the only Independent to qualify at more than 16 NHRA National Events. His Hartley Racing Top Fuel Dragster, driven by his son Joe, uses not only BME Pistons, but BME Rods, Wrist Pins and the Gibson/Miller Mark II Supercharger. The durability of BME parts give the Hartleys and others a cost advantage highly coveted by budget-conscious independents.

                          Bill Miller's BME/Okuma/Red Line OiI Top Fuel Dragster, driven by Troy Buff, is a key development tool Bill Miller Engineering uses to validate its Pistons along with the company's other products. In 2010, the BME Top Fuel Team finished 12th in points, the highest finish by any Top Fuel team running a partial schedule.
                          How about Pro Mods, Econorails, Super Gas cars, Super Stocks, Sport Compacts...even bracket cars? Racers in drag racing's sportsman categories, wanting the same reliability had by the Clay Millicans, Bob Vandergriff's, Larry Morgans of the sport, use BME pistons to win races.

                          What better way to prove you make the best blown-fuel pistons in the industry by running them in your own Top Fuel Dragster? Image: BME Ltd.

                          Two well-known reasons many nitro class engine builders choose BME Forged Aluminum Pistons are 1) their winning record and 2) their reliability. But, there's a third important issue and that's cost. Top Fuel and Funny Car teams need many sets of pistons because each of them has half-a-dozen or more engines. If the pistons are more durable, they will last longer and a team will need less of them. That makes the BME Piston not only a winner but also a great value. Image: BME Ltd.

                          CLICK HERE To Download Piston Order Form

                          Piston Tech Briefing
                          Bill Miller Engineering Pistons forged from 2618-T61 aluminum. BME has used 2618 for almost 25 years because Bill Miller believes it to be the best choice when strength and durability are prime considerations. .
                          Another reason racers pick BME as their piston supplier is attention to detail. This set of racing pistons is being built for Drag Racing megastar, John Force, but whether it's pistons for Force or just your average bracket racer, every Bill Miller Engineering piston gets the same care taken in its manufacture.


                          Many other piston manufacturers use a silicon-aluminum alloy, such as 4032 or MS75. Pistons made from those alloys have good wear characteristics, because the silicon particulate's hardness improves the piston skirt's durability, however silicon is, also, their downfall because it makes pistons brittle. Through race track testing, BME found that silicon-aluminum alloys are prone to fracturing when subjected to extreme loads.
                          This gets worse. With pistons made of brittle, silicon-aluminum alloys, once a crack starts; it doesn’t stop until the piston suffers catastrophic failure. In the rare case of a crack in a BME, 2618-T61 piston, once the crack reaches an area of lower stress; it stops, making immediate failure less likely.
                          In the tongs is a BME raw forging that has just come out of the forging die. Just right of the piston blank in the tongs is a chunk of aluminum bar stock that will go into the forge on the next cycle. The forging temperature is 800 deg. F and it applies a force of 18,000 tons to forge a piston.

                          NASCAR Sprint Cup racers use BME pistons to win races with engines which must produce upwards of 850 horsepower, sustain speeds above 9000 rpm and do that for up to 600 miles. The choice of a strong and durable raw material, subtle differences in the design of the forging and precision finishing of ring grooves are just some of the reasons why pistons made by Bill Miller Engineering outperform and outlast other racing pistons in stock car racing.
                          With its blown-fuel drag race pistons, BME takes durability measures even further by treating each piston to a very low temperature, hard anodizing process. As a result, compared to other brands, BME Pistons last about twice as long in blown-fuel, drag race applications.

                          Bill Miller Engineering uses state-of-the-art equipment to manufacture BME Pistons. Here a BME Team Member programs an Okuma Simulturn CNC machining center prior to a run of BME Sprint Cup racing pistons. The Okuma CNC equipment is used to machine ring grooves and to "cam turn" the piston's outside diameter.

                          The Bill Miller Engineering Forged Aluminum Piston line is focused on the types of products hard-core racers tend to buy. “I’ve decided.” Bill Miller states, “to concentrate my efforts on making high-quality, high-tech racing pistons for professional racers who compete in specific types of motorsports using certain types of engines. By focusing on a limited amount of hardcore racing pistons and making those pistons to order, we can give our customers a measure of performance, quality, reliability and durability no other piston manufacturer offers. We, also, can do that with very short turnaround times."
                          The three most important things about a Bill Miller Engineering piston are quality, quality and quality. Every step of the way, the manufacturing process at BME employs stringent quality control along with careful records keeping.
                          In addition to NASCAR racing pistons, BME makes pistons for Chevrolet Big-Block V8 and the Gen 1 and Gen 2 small-blocks. For Ford engines, BME offers pistons for the 460 big-block, 289-302W and the BOSS 302/351s. Bill Miller Engineering has Chrysler, late-Hemi-style, blown-fuel, blown-alcohol and Pro Stock pistons, along with parts for the older small-block Chryslers. Lastly, BME manufactures sport compact drag racing pistons for Honda four-cylinder engines. Prices for most BME pistons are listed on our price page. BME offers a number of special services which are optional at extra cost. See a list of those on our services page
                          BME makes no inventory items. All its pistons are either custom-made to customer specifications or, in the case of race teams who take the specific forging die option, are completely unique
                          .


                          Not only does Bill Miller Engineering make the most reliable and durable forged pistons in the business but it prides itself on great customer service, accurate technical advice, quick turnaround of orders and fair prices. More importantly, everyone at BME, from the office staff, to the high-tech manufacturing specialists who make the pistons, to the shipping department and, of course, to Bill Miller himself, are intent upon great communication with customers.
                          Want proof?
                          Try this with any of the other piston makers: call and ask to speak to the owner. If you don’t get the reply, “Uh--he’s not taking calls.”, you’ll at least get voice mail. At BME, when you ask for help from the top, Bill Miller, himself, answers the phone.
                          That’s the sign of a great business--the one from which you should buy your next set of racing pistons.


                          PISTON PRICES

                          PISTON SERVICES

                          CLICK HERE To Download Piston Order Form

                          The truth about Top Fuel and
                          and Funny Car Chassis !
                          Copyright © 2011 Bill Miller Engineering

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                          • #14
                            Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

                            Forjados ,,son x que son forjados en la "montaña del destino" como el anillo de sauron...ese lo hacian a los martillazos.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Respuesta: piston forjado o fundido?

                              Originally posted by cristianhellmund View Post
                              Forjados ,,son x que son forjados en la "montaña del destino" como el anillo de sauron...ese lo hacian a los martillazos.
                              jajjajaja! my precious!

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