Tweet
Re: C63
brutalidad en estado purooooo
brutalidad en estado purooooo
-
-
Re: C63
Dioooooooooos q lindo bote!!! PORNO!!
justo en la pobreza....
Comment
-
Re: C63
Madre miaa !!! que caños y calidadComment
-
Re: C63
terrible !!!Comment
-
Re: C63
1730 kg o 1805 kg std (si no vi mal) DE PURO PORNOOOO!!Comment
-
Re: C63
Aparte una performance mod plug&race para usarlo cuando se te cante... que cosa de locos, increible.
Me encantó.Comment
-
Re: C63
quedo hincha pelota si pido todo lo mismo pero en la carroza que traia cuando se denominaba 190, el EVO mas precisamenteComment
-
Re: C63
Que lindo auto!
Me hiciste acordar, el otro dia estaba en palermo y paso un c63 (obviamente si todo el chimichurri) el chabon lo aceleraba en vacio en el semaforo y los vidrios de los locales vibraban.
Terrible lo que ruge.Comment
-
Re: C63
Auto de viejo choto .....................
Comment
-
Re: C63
Lindo para que una milf lleve los nenes al cole.Comment
-
Re: C63
Seeee, cada vez mas viejo choto debo estar porque cada día me gusta mas la estrella esta y además en este segmento el clase C se destaca incluso sobre los otros alemanes.Originally posted by cristian7280 View PostAuto de viejo choto .....................
Ese auto en 20 años va a seguir siendo hermoso.
Saludos.Comment
-
Re: C63
No, pero es la ultima vez, todo no puedo che.Originally posted by VIN DIESEL View Post
Mercedes 2.3-16:
ROTREX C30-74 Supercharger with air/water intercooler:
SUMMERY:
The ROTREX C30 series blower is small and easily mounted almost anywhere with access to a clockwise drive belt. It is really a neat bit of kit. On our 16V the mounting, drive and ducting were designed for a compact installation with short intake passages. Charge cooling is by a water/air intercooler & heat exchanger.
The blower is mounted in place of the power steering pump. The PS pump was moved to the exhaust side of the engine below the alternator. A water/air intercooler is mounted in unit with and below a fabricated plenum on a shortened 16V intake manifold. The distance from the blower outlet to the 65mm throttle body (mounted on the intercooler inlet) is ~ 30cm.
Associated miscellaneous installation work consisted of: building PS & Rotrex oil reservoir brackets, Rotrex oil cooler installation, mounting and plumbing the intercooler and intercooler electric water pump, modifying the throttle cable, sensor rewiring, and misc. hose re-routing, etc. The battery was moved to the rear and a cold air intake/air filter installed in the front battery box (positive air pressure above 60kph). NOTE: this was on a RHD car so the battery compartment is on the intake side.
The Rotrex C30-74 blower with an 85mm pulley on a 2.3-16 with factory crank pulley goes positive pressure at 2800rpm, pumps 5psi (1.3bar) at 4000rpm, 8psi (1.5bar) at 6800rpm and hits 10psi (1.7bar) at 7200rpm. We are using 2.5-16 cams & a 2.5 exhaust manifold and it will rev happily to destruction but this is an every day driver so we set a sensible 7200 rpm rev limit.
With factory compression and Megasquirt set for an AFR of ~ 12.5 and the ignition pulled back to 26deg above 4200rpm & 100kpa the engine does not knock and runs cool. Torque is greatly improved above 3000rpm. At 4000rpm when the engine goes “on cam” the car pulls very, very hard all the way to the 7200rpm rev limiter cut. Throttle response is instant.
The car drives like a normal NA car (except for the improved >3000rpm torque) and is a perfectly civilized quiet every day drive in traffic although there is a little blower intake whine just off idle. The 25mm blow-off valves are ducted under the car to minimize boy-racer whooshy noises.
This is certainly not a “bolt-on” conversion. There was a lot of thought, fabrication, parts sourcing, some dead ends, and a few hours a day over six months, but the result is well worth the effort…..
MAJOR JOBS:
1) Intake stuff belongs on the intake side of an engine. We wanted the exhaust side of the engine “clean” and therefore mounted the blower on the intake side where it belongs. It is not much larger than the Merc power steering pump. The PS pump mounting bosses on the block are well positioned to receive the blower so brackets were fabricated to mount the blower in its place. Mock-up brackets were cut from 10m plastic sheet, drilled & trial fitted. The Rotrex drive pulley was aligned with the Merc serpentine belt drive. The final brackets and alignment spacers were cut from 10mm steel plate.
2) The power steering pump was moved to the exhaust side below the alternator. The pump is mounted up-side-down (after removing the reservoir and making up a plate with a 12mm feed elbow in place of the reservoir) and a bracket made to mount the pump below the alternator utilizing two of the existing front cover bolts with a steady brace running from the rear of the pump to an unused 8mm threaded boss on the block. A suitable diameter P-4 drive pulley was adapted to the PS pump and a compatible P-4 drive pulley welded to the nose of the alternator drive pulley. The mounting bracket is shimmed to align the P-4 PS pump pulley with the P-4 pulley on the alternator pulley nose. Both pulleys are sized to maintain the factory crank to PS pump rpm ratio.
3) The 16V belt path was modified to accommodate the blower and the repositioned PS pump by adding two idler pulleys and fitting a manual tensioning adjuster. The 16V adjuster rod and “shock absorbers” were removed. One additional idler is mounted on a small bracket attached to the lower segment of the factory tensioner arm. A manual adjuster is fitted to rotate the arm, simultaneously tensioning the belt and increasing the belt wrap on both the blower drive and air-con compressor.
A second idler pulley is mounted on the factory alternator bracket to increase the belt wrap on the alternator.
4) A 16V intake manifold was cut and a 12mm intake plate welded to the stubs to receive the plenum. Small flow smoothing horns were machined and fitted to the plate.
5) The plenum, after making a mock up from 4mm plastic sheet, was welded up with the water/air intercooler (after cutting off the upper outlet) welded to the bottom of the plenum. The intercooler (ex- eBay) is sized for a 600hp flow.
6) A Nissan 65mm throttle body is fitted to a flange welded to the intercooler inlet and 52mm stainless ducting used to connect the blower outlet to a 52x65mm concentric cone feeding the throttle body. Two 25mm blow-off valves are fitted to the cone.
7) For the water/air intercooler heat exchanger we are using a ten plate 9cm thick air-con evaporator (with an electric fan) installed in the space on the left front behind the spoiler. The evaporator measures 25x27x12cm, weighs less than 5kg and just fits/ clears the left front wheel. It is piped with 16mm hose to the intercooler via a Bosch electric water pump. A small header tank is T’ed into the pump intake. The heat exchanger pump & fan are triggered by both temp and load by a neat Australian controller that measures both injector PW (engine load) and intake air temp.
The system is lighter, more compact than a large single heat changer and is invisible. If it does not provide sufficient cooling a second unit can be installed on the right front behind the spoiler, increasing capacity.
Currently the system at cruise or in light traffic will maintain an inlet air temp (measured in the intake plenum after the intercooler) of 12 to 20deg above ambient but its capacity is marginal; after a high boost run or after a heavy traffic temp rise, the system struggles to bring the intake temp back down to cruise level. The highest we have seen has been 64C. It took ~fifteen minutes to bring it down to 48C which is 18deg above ambient. Livable but not ideal.
Future work will focus on a adding the second right side heat exchanger. Then maybe an up-grade to a Rotrex C30-84 blower…….
Extraneous comment:
Turbos are fine if you like turbos. I don’t, and feel that a supercharger is a more elegant, although not as potentially powerful a solution to forced induction. Insane turbo power is relatively easy but crude and really basically useless in a daily driver. All the associated exhaust work, boost control paraphernalia, long intake paths, massive heavy intercoolers, and turbo lag just do not light this guy’s fire. A civilized, quiet, responsive supercharged engine does.
You can flame me now at will……..
BUILD PHOTOS:
The finished intercooler/plenum bead blasted to match the blower finish. There is a brake servo vacuum takes-off on the back of the plenum and a block with four vacuum service take-offs on the intercooler inlet to the right of the throttle body. The brass fittings on the front and rear of the intercooler are for water circulation. The Megasquirt MAT sensor is mounted on the face of the plenum. The temp sensor mounted on the top of the plenum is for the water/air intercooler pump controller.
The water/air intercooler (after cutting off the top outlet) mounted on the manifold plate prior to boxing up the plenum. The plenum displaces 3900cc and tapers towards the front. There is a baffle mounted in the plenum to divert air flow exiting the intercooler core to keep it from blowing across the intake horns. The 65mm throttle body & TPS are from a Nissan V6 SUV.
A small Bosch aux. electric water pump (ex-124) is mounted on the frame rail below the ABS unit and plumbed with 16mm hose to the intercooler and heat exchanger. There is a small header tank for the intercooler mounted on the fender well.
The water pump/fan controller is a clever black box supplied by: http://store.autospeed.com/Kits%20and%20Projects/
The controller has two thermistor/sensors reads ambient & plenum air temp & injector PW switching on the pump and fan only when the ambient/plenum air temp differential and engine load exceed adjustable set points.
The revised belt path, power steering pump bracket, and power steering pump belt drive. The belt path turned out quite reasonable after removing the factory belt tensioning apparatus and “shock absorbers”, and fitting two additional idler pulleys and a manual tensioner. The blower pulley belt “wrap” is sufficient to drive the blower without noticeable slippage.
Blower bracket, one of the additional idlers, and the belt tensioner. The tensioner adjusts the upper and lower idlers simultaneously.
This 152mm cold air intake set-up did not fit. After installation the intake conflicted with the frame rail and several other non-movables so it was scrapped and a more direct & compact 75mm cold air intake made up.
Large truck air filter in the battery compartment. There is positive pressure in the compartment above 60kph. This photo was taken just after moving the battery to the rear and is prior to blower installation. The engine at this time was still equipped with ITB’s.
Injectors: 380cc Bosch p/n 0-280-155-811.
The Nylon 12mm insulator/spacer plates between the head and the intake manifold required longer 75mm studs.
Two Bosch type 25mm blow-off valves: one above and one below the throttle body intake horn. Both are set for 10psi.
65mm Nissan throttle body, two blow-off valves, throttle cable bracket, return spring, & vacuum take offs.
PS pump moved to exhaust side and mounted upside down below the alternator. PS fluid is fed into the bottom of the pump from a remote ex-BMW power steering reservoir mounted behind the right headlamp. The alternator pulley is extended by welding on a P-4 belt pulley. The PS drive pulleys are sized to maintain the same crank/pump speed ratio as the original configuration.
PARTIAL INSTALLATION:
The existing ITB set-up was removed and the remote oil filter moved from its position under the ITB’s to the left fender well. All intake studs were removed and longer 75mm studs installed to accept the 12mm intake manifold insulators. The fabricated intercooler/plenum/throttle body intake system then bolted straight on. The intercooler water plumbing, new fuel and vacuum lines, TPS, temp sensors hooked up, etc.
Megasquirt was re-set from ITB Alpha-N to SD and the engine fired up. We spent an afternoon logging and tuning the engine as a single throttle body NA application. It ran well and strong but expectedly without the sharpness of the ITB’s. The idea was to get it running well on NA then install the blower and drive.
The intake system installed without the blower. The small black tank (temporarily) mounted on the strut tower is the header tank for the water /air intercooler system. It was later moved to the position of the remote PS reservoir (the larger round tank next to the ABS). The power steering pump is still in its factory position. The pump integral reservoir has been replaced by a feed plate and fitting for the remote reservoir. This (and the remote oil filter/thermostat set-up) was originally necessary for ITB & intake air box clearance. During blower installation the PS pump & the plate were later moved and installed (after inverting the pump) along with a BMW remote PS reservoir on the exhaust side of the engine.
FINAL INSTALLATION:
The blower, idlers, belt drive, and ducting were installed. The blower oil system primed and the engine fired up using the Megasquirt settings developed during the NA phase with appropriate >100Kpa VE and spark values. The engine ran very well with a slight rolling idle due to the blower’s parasitic drag. Again an afternoon was spent tuning and refining the VE and spark tables.
The blower, ducting, & drive system installed. The white canister in the lower left is the Rotrex oil reservoir. The blower has its own internal oil pump and uses some strange, very expensive magic oil. Blower oil is pumped through an oil cooler in front of the radiator made from a 80cm long double loop of SUV finned transmission cooling tubing, then back to the reservoir. The 75mm black ducting feeds cool air from the filter to the 52mm blower inlet. The small tank to the right of the ABS unit is the water/air intercooler header tank.
The air filter and its sewer pipe elbow and 3x4” eccentric reducer. The air filter is a 12” monster from a diesel truck. The wire running from the filter is the ambient air temp sensor for the intercooler fan/pump controller. The manifold air temp sensor for the controller is mounted on the top of the plenum. The car is equipped with RDMTEK adjustable camber plates.
Power steering remote reservoir (ex-BMW) & the “double” alternator pulley. The PS pump is below the alternator.
Rear mounted battery with a 500amp cable running forward under the car and spliced into the factory Merc positive battery lead in the original forward battery compartment.
RESULTS:
General dyno comments:
I am very skeptical about dyno numbers. Without exception every dyno we have used had some inconsistency, some were worst than others, but the results were all off to some degree or another. We have seen variations as high as 21% from one dyno to another with the same car in the same tune at the same temp on the same day and similar but smaller differences on the same dyno on different days.
If big numbers rather than incremental measure, are your aim and if your initial dyno runs gave you the numbers you wanted (and bragged about) then leave it at that and do not try a second dyno. However, if you are disappointed with the initial results: shop around. You will eventually find a dyno that gives you the numbers you want. The most satisfying high number dyno runs are usually done by a savvy dyno operator who asks your “HP goal” before the run. He knows how to make a customer happy……
The following before and after numbers were done on the same dyno at the same temp (obviously on different days) and are the more an indication of the earlier ITB installation differential and the current blower installation differential than real horsepower. The numbers could be quite different (higher or lower) if done on another dyno.
Before(1): 142hp @ 5700rpm: single 65mm throttle body on a stock manifold
Before(2): 171hp @ 6700rpm: 52mm ITB’s.
Rotrex: 215hp @ 6900rpm: with the blower.
The 44 hp ( 20%) improvement after blower installation compares well with the earlier (2007) 29hp improvement (again 20%) when we replaced the single 65mm throttle body on a stock manifold with the 52mm ITB’s.
If we started from scratch and skipped the intermediate ITB conversion, the overall gain by installing the Rotrex blower on an EFI & a single throttle body 16V engine is ~ 73hp. This is a huge output jump and combined with the resulting general tractability and everyday usefulness of the car is the way to go.
The big ITB conversion was nice, gained hp, but cost about the same as the blower conversion and involved a lot more after-installation set-up and tuning to get the car civilized with the ITB’s.
The blower conversion required about the same pre-installation work but bolted right on and was much easier to tune. If we had to do it again, based on the results, we would have skipped the ITB effort and straight away taken the supercharger path to more 16V grunt.
Comments welcome: bobf@pd.jaring.my
Bobf (Feb2009)
Bobf. (Feb 2009)Comment
-
Re: C63
Que lindo un 190 con ITBs.
Igual esto llevo más cabeza y adaptación de cosas que el del c63.
Lo que me llama la atención es el IC tan cerca del block, por más que sea refrigerado por agua... debe ser que debo romper el preconcepto... a fin de cuentas un IC no es que está en la otra punta del auto jajaja.
Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando TapatalkComment
-
Re: C63
Originally posted by Gerardo View Post
Y todavia hay gente que dice que los mercedes son autos de viejos?????????????????'Comment
-
Re: C63
Originally posted by tucan4200 View Post
Un IC en alta enfria muchisimo, pero tambien te frena por CX... MUCHO un WC no.... todo depende a que apuntes.Comment
Comment